The Tyla discourse turned me off from her and unfortunately her music isn’t good enough *to me* to override that initial distaste. The Black American community is very accepting even if you don’t identify as Black but we can also tell when someone is looking down on us.
Oooooooooweeee you took it there! And Ariana, i must say, you nailed it!!! I'm soooo proud of your analysis... everything you said was so carefully well thought out, and based in factual evidence!!!!
I think your error is comparing a coloured girl from SA to the black experience in America. A coloured person from SA is not black. Does not experience blackness. And in South Africa that comes with a VERY different perspective. Yes Africans from Africa DO tend to look down on African Americans. For a myriad of reasons but mostly because of the American part not the black part. Americans are looked down upon almost everywhere. And having grown up in apartheid, and seeing how slowly the escape from the mire is, I think it’s more the frustration that African Americans have it so much better than Africans but all the conversations about blackness in media tend to revolve around African Americans. Who posit themselves as the experts on anti black racism. But regardless- my point is that to discuss tyla - a coloured girl- in relation to blackness is a fundamental misunderstanding of what coloured is. Coloured is not mixed race. It is an entirely culture language and way of life that exists in the same way black culture exists and Indian culture exists and Asian culture exists. It is not blackness or proximity to blackness. And that’s why she does not associate herself with blackness. And why she gets so offended when asked about blackness. She does not know because she is not black nor proximal to it. She is coloured. And pretty coloured girls from joburg would say that line to anyone. If you know coloured girls you get it. If you don’t you don’t. Some of her humour might be too contextually South African. I respect what you’re trying to say here about blackness but tyla is not black. She’s coloured. It’s not the same. She’s not mixed race either. She’s coloured. From South Africa. And we love her music. She is huge.
love the point you make about the importance of dissociating Tyla from blackness in South Africa, which i completely agree with. i just find it inauthentic of Tyla to be making Amapiano and Barcardi music which is distinctly black. by aligning herself with a genre that sprouts from South African black townships, she has to be discussed within the context of blackness no matter her racial identity as she profits from the culture.
Irregardless of how she identifies she gets read as black outside of the South African context. That might not be fair but it is true. Its true for every mixed person who is phenotypically black. That’s the reality of white supremacy. She intentionally marketed herself to an American black audience in order to extract a resource that is intangibly valuable. Cultural clout. A resource so valuable people leave their homelands in search of it. Because they know it comes with a level of material success unachievable at home. I disagree strongly with your opinion that American blacks are looked down upon for being American. I think that’s dishonest of you. If that was the case black immigrants would look down on white Americans they same way. And they don’t. In fact they seek out their approval attempting to assimilate as model minorities. I would also encourage you to stop being invested in the oppression Olympics. To say that African Americans “have it better” is quite delusional when you have a president who is now launching full military attacks on black neighborhoods in the nations capital as I write this. I don’t know where non Americans get the idea that black Americans have benefitted from US imperialism when without their unpaid labor and continued subjugation the US would not exist. The escape from black American inter generational poverty trauma is just as impossible as apartheid. That’s the point of my article. White supremacy doesn’t care where in the world you are, the tactics are the same. I hope you stop doing the work for them because quite frankly your comment is doing their mission for free.
All of this just confirms why American Americans shouldn’t talk on Africans because it’s apparent you know nothing. BLACK presidents are forcing Congolese BLACK children into mines for American phones and computers. SOUTH AFRICAN BLACK PRESIDENT mobilized the BLACK ARMY on BLACK SOUTH AFRICANS two years ago. The black African experiences is EXTREMELY violent. You don’t even have an inkling of how well you’ve got it in America. And that’s accepting that you’ve got it BAD. Think on that for a bit.
You want to be the most oppressed so bad. Keep doing their work for free sis! I don’t work without being paid 😩 you don’t know what I am you keep assuming how I identify I have yet to tell you. You and I can’t be in conversation because you don’t operate from a place of truth you operate from emotion.
And yes we have racial issues in South Africa but no American can speak on them. It’s entirely different to Jim Crow and slavery. And we are in an entirely different era of it. The only similarity is that black Africans are the lowest in the heirarchy when it comes to the racism. But the effects and cultural norms that came and exist out of it are not similar at all. They vary in context and class. It’s reductive to expect a black South African to understand or care about black Americans because they’re talking in their own lane about it different experiences. IF black Americans wanted to discuss black Africans, it would be more akin to Palestine right now. It should be discussed in that context not Jim Crow
And if she’s invited into those spaces because WHITE Americans don’t know how to treat her besides as black, then that’s who you need to direct your anger to.
And don’t say ‘they’ like I’m not one of them. I’ve made it clear I’m South African. I know why we look down on Americans. If we’re ‘nicer’ to white people it’s the same reason every minority is. You aren’t nice to a white person in SA you could die about it. Especially the ones older than 35. Ask any South African non white how many white friends they trust you’ll get a nice fat zero. Unless they’re exceptionally wealthy. But even then.
If colored is not mixed race, what is it? It seemed to me that she is multiracial and has some Black ancestry but is obviously not monoracial.
I agree, in South Africa Tyla would not experience “Blackness” but in the U.S. she would be read as a multiracial Black person and her image is definitely not disrupting that idea.
She’s a brown-skin girl wearing braids and making a genre of African music. Call Americans whatever you want, but to us that seems like “Black”. In addition, she has put herself in Black spaces. Kai Cenat? BET Awards? The Breakfast Club? BET and TBC are cultural staples within the Black community and Kai Cenat is popular amongst Black youth.
I don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with her being coloured—we can’t help the racial categories of our societies. But, it doesn’t seem like she’s saying she’s not Black simply because she isn’t—it seems like she’s not Black because it’s beneath her. Also, even being Coloured in SA comes directly from white supremacy and state violence.
It’s clear you don’t understand the concept of coloured but insist it’s the same as mixed race when you have a literal South African in South Africa telling you it’s not. Why do you think YOUR interpretation supersedes my expertise? You can go round and round in circles saying she looks mixed so she must be mixed but this won’t change the fact that she’s coloured and you DONT know what that is.
Literally yes where she is from being black IS beneath her. Thats the point. You can’t put her in the context of black America and expect her to cowtow to it because she’s not black and has never experienced blackness and never well. It means literally nothing to her. She is coloured. Indian people, cape Malay, biracial Africans are the ancestral coloureds so imagine someone who has Malaysian Indian black and white racial ancestry as a blend. And then developed a whole new language, culture around it. Coloured people don’t consider themselves mixed race because then WHAT race would it be? Braids are African, she is African. But she is not black. Especially not in South Africa. Calling her black is offensive in its own way because it’s lumping coloured into blackness when they don’t experience the same culture at all. May as well call Indian people black too because we are brown skinned. And idk what music she’s supposed to make if she’s from Africa obviously it’s gonna be African. Amapiano in literally a South African genre of music. From our streets. It has nothing to do with America or black America.
The Tyla discourse turned me off from her and unfortunately her music isn’t good enough *to me* to override that initial distaste. The Black American community is very accepting even if you don’t identify as Black but we can also tell when someone is looking down on us.
Oooooooooweeee you took it there! And Ariana, i must say, you nailed it!!! I'm soooo proud of your analysis... everything you said was so carefully well thought out, and based in factual evidence!!!!
Thank you 😊 💖
I think your error is comparing a coloured girl from SA to the black experience in America. A coloured person from SA is not black. Does not experience blackness. And in South Africa that comes with a VERY different perspective. Yes Africans from Africa DO tend to look down on African Americans. For a myriad of reasons but mostly because of the American part not the black part. Americans are looked down upon almost everywhere. And having grown up in apartheid, and seeing how slowly the escape from the mire is, I think it’s more the frustration that African Americans have it so much better than Africans but all the conversations about blackness in media tend to revolve around African Americans. Who posit themselves as the experts on anti black racism. But regardless- my point is that to discuss tyla - a coloured girl- in relation to blackness is a fundamental misunderstanding of what coloured is. Coloured is not mixed race. It is an entirely culture language and way of life that exists in the same way black culture exists and Indian culture exists and Asian culture exists. It is not blackness or proximity to blackness. And that’s why she does not associate herself with blackness. And why she gets so offended when asked about blackness. She does not know because she is not black nor proximal to it. She is coloured. And pretty coloured girls from joburg would say that line to anyone. If you know coloured girls you get it. If you don’t you don’t. Some of her humour might be too contextually South African. I respect what you’re trying to say here about blackness but tyla is not black. She’s coloured. It’s not the same. She’s not mixed race either. She’s coloured. From South Africa. And we love her music. She is huge.
love the point you make about the importance of dissociating Tyla from blackness in South Africa, which i completely agree with. i just find it inauthentic of Tyla to be making Amapiano and Barcardi music which is distinctly black. by aligning herself with a genre that sprouts from South African black townships, she has to be discussed within the context of blackness no matter her racial identity as she profits from the culture.
Irregardless of how she identifies she gets read as black outside of the South African context. That might not be fair but it is true. Its true for every mixed person who is phenotypically black. That’s the reality of white supremacy. She intentionally marketed herself to an American black audience in order to extract a resource that is intangibly valuable. Cultural clout. A resource so valuable people leave their homelands in search of it. Because they know it comes with a level of material success unachievable at home. I disagree strongly with your opinion that American blacks are looked down upon for being American. I think that’s dishonest of you. If that was the case black immigrants would look down on white Americans they same way. And they don’t. In fact they seek out their approval attempting to assimilate as model minorities. I would also encourage you to stop being invested in the oppression Olympics. To say that African Americans “have it better” is quite delusional when you have a president who is now launching full military attacks on black neighborhoods in the nations capital as I write this. I don’t know where non Americans get the idea that black Americans have benefitted from US imperialism when without their unpaid labor and continued subjugation the US would not exist. The escape from black American inter generational poverty trauma is just as impossible as apartheid. That’s the point of my article. White supremacy doesn’t care where in the world you are, the tactics are the same. I hope you stop doing the work for them because quite frankly your comment is doing their mission for free.
All of this just confirms why American Americans shouldn’t talk on Africans because it’s apparent you know nothing. BLACK presidents are forcing Congolese BLACK children into mines for American phones and computers. SOUTH AFRICAN BLACK PRESIDENT mobilized the BLACK ARMY on BLACK SOUTH AFRICANS two years ago. The black African experiences is EXTREMELY violent. You don’t even have an inkling of how well you’ve got it in America. And that’s accepting that you’ve got it BAD. Think on that for a bit.
You want to be the most oppressed so bad. Keep doing their work for free sis! I don’t work without being paid 😩 you don’t know what I am you keep assuming how I identify I have yet to tell you. You and I can’t be in conversation because you don’t operate from a place of truth you operate from emotion.
I operate from South Africa actually.
So now it’s her fault people are lazy
And yes we have racial issues in South Africa but no American can speak on them. It’s entirely different to Jim Crow and slavery. And we are in an entirely different era of it. The only similarity is that black Africans are the lowest in the heirarchy when it comes to the racism. But the effects and cultural norms that came and exist out of it are not similar at all. They vary in context and class. It’s reductive to expect a black South African to understand or care about black Americans because they’re talking in their own lane about it different experiences. IF black Americans wanted to discuss black Africans, it would be more akin to Palestine right now. It should be discussed in that context not Jim Crow
And if she’s invited into those spaces because WHITE Americans don’t know how to treat her besides as black, then that’s who you need to direct your anger to.
And don’t say ‘they’ like I’m not one of them. I’ve made it clear I’m South African. I know why we look down on Americans. If we’re ‘nicer’ to white people it’s the same reason every minority is. You aren’t nice to a white person in SA you could die about it. Especially the ones older than 35. Ask any South African non white how many white friends they trust you’ll get a nice fat zero. Unless they’re exceptionally wealthy. But even then.
If you want to relate to black Africa go talk to a Native American first. Then come here and yap.
If colored is not mixed race, what is it? It seemed to me that she is multiracial and has some Black ancestry but is obviously not monoracial.
I agree, in South Africa Tyla would not experience “Blackness” but in the U.S. she would be read as a multiracial Black person and her image is definitely not disrupting that idea.
She’s a brown-skin girl wearing braids and making a genre of African music. Call Americans whatever you want, but to us that seems like “Black”. In addition, she has put herself in Black spaces. Kai Cenat? BET Awards? The Breakfast Club? BET and TBC are cultural staples within the Black community and Kai Cenat is popular amongst Black youth.
I don’t think there’s anything “wrong” with her being coloured—we can’t help the racial categories of our societies. But, it doesn’t seem like she’s saying she’s not Black simply because she isn’t—it seems like she’s not Black because it’s beneath her. Also, even being Coloured in SA comes directly from white supremacy and state violence.
It’s clear you don’t understand the concept of coloured but insist it’s the same as mixed race when you have a literal South African in South Africa telling you it’s not. Why do you think YOUR interpretation supersedes my expertise? You can go round and round in circles saying she looks mixed so she must be mixed but this won’t change the fact that she’s coloured and you DONT know what that is.
Literally yes where she is from being black IS beneath her. Thats the point. You can’t put her in the context of black America and expect her to cowtow to it because she’s not black and has never experienced blackness and never well. It means literally nothing to her. She is coloured. Indian people, cape Malay, biracial Africans are the ancestral coloureds so imagine someone who has Malaysian Indian black and white racial ancestry as a blend. And then developed a whole new language, culture around it. Coloured people don’t consider themselves mixed race because then WHAT race would it be? Braids are African, she is African. But she is not black. Especially not in South Africa. Calling her black is offensive in its own way because it’s lumping coloured into blackness when they don’t experience the same culture at all. May as well call Indian people black too because we are brown skinned. And idk what music she’s supposed to make if she’s from Africa obviously it’s gonna be African. Amapiano in literally a South African genre of music. From our streets. It has nothing to do with America or black America.